Maura the above picture is what you have described religion to be.As for Tim your statement of the Koran is correct that statement is the second one to discuss violence, the first statement on violence when the prophet was first getting followers was one of tolerance and non-violence. Then after he gained power he said that it was right to fight if it was for religion. These statments are contridictory and it has been a struggle of the faith of which one to believe, the one most accepted is that what was written later overrides what is written early. Convievent or as Maura would say flawed, to me it seems like using something to get your own means.
I do agree with Maura religion is flawed, has and most likely will always be. And I think the fact that religion if it is the source of understanding and the way to what ever afterlife you believe in, it shouldn't be fluid, it should be firm, or else it becomes the picture I put on top something people turn to when they can't stand on their own beliefs, acts and decisions. Also disecting religion or beliefs is what makes it so great to be human. We can reason we can discuss argue, we can THINK and question. And if a religion is afraid of that, then they do no subscribe to being human, and I don't understand why anyone would wants to follow that. Religion should not fear inquiries, questions, challenges. If it is as great as they all say then it will stand, as the put it, a rock that will weather any storm. But through history I only seen them try to weather the storm with denial and boycotts. (modern examples, The Da Vinci Code, Harry Potter, the Golden Compass Priests and little boys, more historical, the Inquistion, various genocides, the persucution of Newton)
If you don't think religion is to be discredited, that is ok but say that for a reason and give an arugment. Look at the history or religion and what was done it its name, the milions killed, enslaved and worse. That divided causes people to be wary of anyone from the middle east sitting beside them on a plane. And yes it may not be relgion that has caused this it is the people, but the people acting on the words of faith, and its teachings have sanctioned it and that is the destructive power of religion.
Now Maura please reply I did not intend to scare you off this blog, if you can tear apart my arugment I very much encourage you to do so, but with logic please I don't speak faith.
Tim, I love the way your arugments always end with a reason, and a reference it is why I love to discuss, argue with you.
-Zachary
2 comments:
Haha I feel like I just got an F from my professor. The picture just bangs it home. awesome.
So this is good....time to get really philosophical...
Before I state my problems with religious establishment, I want to make the point that my religion is that of spiritual common sense and overall belief in yourself. This is what fundamentalists and true believers lack in any religious following. I don't care if you are a jihadist strapping a bomb to your back or an evangelical in the army of Christ speaking in tongues. As Zach pointed out, they lack the sense to question, to consider alternate points of view, which is a very natural process in the human mind. Although I am not quite as much of a nihilist as Nietzsche (just saying his name will I'm sure get some people involved in this discussion), I do agree that the world is completely fluid and ever changing. It is filled with discovery which makes it very difficult to pin down the truth sometimes. Sometimes even difficult to write down when your mind is much more fluid then your words. Much of religious thought is ignorant to this, instead focusing on one unchanged ideal. Somehow you are supposed to turn off your natural curiosity and see only whets put in front of you, they call it faith.
Having said that, there is nothing I see wrong with and respect the positive values many religions preach: love, friendship, discipline, happiness. The line is crossed when many religions contradict the values they preach by calling for wars in the name of God; effectively throwing common sense out the window. When you think of this type of thought making its way to Washington and affecting national decisions its scary. In general any misuse of religious influence is where the real danger is (here comes the Nietzsche).
Nietzsche said the will to power is what drives everything in the universe. The will to grow, strengthen, and possess true freedom. The earliest religous leaders said to themselves, "Hey, we can tell people they have to suffer in the name of God their whole lives. They should be poor, weak and average. They should ignore their will to power and never try to advance themselves in life. Embrace mediocrity, guilt, chastity, and humble before God. As a reward they will go to heaven and live like kings (you'll even get 40 virgin women if you are an Islamic man)."
So your telling me all I need to do is become a slave to God my whole life, and I will get to bang 40 hot chicks when its over? The people accepted this from the leaders because it was easy! Do what your told and it will all work out for you when you die. Its easy to sacrifice power and strength (things that require hard work to obtain) in REAL LIFE (the only life we know for sure) for rewards in your metaphysical life....and of course in your life here on earth you'll never rise to the level of the leaders. The leaders were exercising their own will by suppressing the masses and keeping power for themselves. So do I believe in ideology that was shaped by rewarding weakness and mediocrity in order for a select few to have power and influence over the many? Absolutely not. My question is why have centuries of people bought into this? The major religions in this world are extremely deep rooted institutions. That's a lot of guilt built up over a long time.
On a lighter note-
We shouldn't really have a problem as most of us are all very concerned with advancement of our own lives, and we engage in good discussion. I think we'll be ok its the rest of this crazy world to worry about. Especially Tom Cruise and the Scientologists. (Sounds like an 80's synth band).
I also want to say that part of my religion is beer, because it makes me happy. I have a lot of fun and love everyone when I drink it so give me one reason why my religion shouldn't involve beer?
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